Deanna Raybourn and Jesse Q. Sutanto have quickly become crime fiction darlings, with their charming sleuths and well-plotted mysteries. Both have also recently embarked on series featuring elders solving crimes—Raybourn writes a series about retired assassins who must return to what they know best, while Sutanto’s Vera Wong series has taken the stock character of the neighborhood snoop into hilarious new territory. So, you can see why we absolutely had to put these two in conversation, and they were both kind enough to oblige. What follows is a conversation on craft, character, and why we need more elders in fiction.
Why does crime fiction have such a love/hate relationship with older women as sleuths? How can fiction better approach the experience of aging?
Jesse: Okay, so I was unaware of this love/hate relationship with older women as sleuths in crime fiction specifically. All I knew was that I often saw older women in various stories, but was always left feeling like these characters didn’t get nearly as much screen time as they deserved. And why shouldn’t they? They’re freaking fantastic! No one has less f*cks to give than an older woman who’s seen it all. This is something I really loved about Deanna’s characters. They’ve so obviously seen just about EVERYTHING humanity could possibly throw at them and they’re so done with it all. I couldn’t have enough of them.
Deanna: I had exactly the same experience–older characters existed, but they were always doing something sad. They were dealing with a dying parent or an empty nest or a difficult diagnosis. Was anybody over the age of sixty besides Jessica Fletcher having FUN? And then I read your aunties and I was overjoyed because here were mature women living their best, most meddlesome lives! And Vera Wong was just the very tasty icing on that cake. She is perceptive and experienced, and she knows exactly how to use her age to her advantage. She is so utterly convinced of her own wisdom–and she’s usually right! Plus, the way she intuits what people need in their teacup or on their plate? Magic. I love that she is embarking on a second chapter in her life that is dynamic and a little dangerous, and she’s putting together a found family to fill in the gaps. She has more than enough love and attention for her one child, so she’s spreading it around!
Who are your older lady icons, in life or in pop culture?
Jesse: Dame Maggie Smith all the waaay! I would watch anything that had her in it. And of course, the legendary Michelle Yeoh. Can I just say how incredibly proud I am that she’s Chinese-Malaysian? I mean, I’m Chinese-Indonesian, but I feel like because our countries are neighbors, I get to be like, “She’s a fellow Southeast Asian person!!”
Deanna: Okay, NOT COOL stealing my answers. (I knew I shouldn’t have let you answer first…) I feel like Dame Maggie and Michelle Yeoh are non-negotiables on the list of icons. I’d also add Diane Lane and Jamie Lee Curtis—both knocking on sixty which doesn’t seem possible! As far as older women whose work I admire, I’d have to include Nigella Lawson (65) and Beverly Jenkins (73). They are setting a fantastic example of women who are doing what they love.
How do you go about writing such humorous characters and set pieces?
Deanna: I can’t imagine spending months with characters who are deadly serious! I think I’d get so bored. I like to have fun with my characters, so that means I have to put them in situations that are sometimes over-the-top, maybe a little improbable. If my characters are dealing with murder–and they usually are–I want them to process it through humour since that’s my coping mechanism as well. But you’re nicer than I am–you give them humour and food! Where does the food angle come from? Are you a fabulous cook as well as being a talented writer? You are, aren’t you?
Jesse: I love taking afternoon naps and whenever I do so, I lie down and watch cooking videos on my phone until I doze off. And one day, I was like, maybe I should put my cooking video addiction to good use. My husband was like, “Omg one day you just all of a sudden started cooking amazing meals!! What happened?” What happened would be hundreds of hours spent watching cooking videos, that’s what!
Deanna, I would love to know–and I know this is going to be a toughie–which character is your favorite? Actually, scrap that. Which character do YOU want to be when you grow up, and which character did you most enjoy writing?
Deanna: Oh, that is a BRUTAL question! I mean, Billie Webster is dynamic and self-assured and unflappable–but she also kills people which is morally dubious. I’d love to be that serene in the face of trouble, just without the homicide. And I do have a soft spot for Veronica Speedwell’s intrepid spirit. When she gets an enthusiasm, she just goes and nothing stands in her way. She is supremely unbothered.
I know you must have adored spending time with Vera. You can tell me–just between us, is she based on anyone you know?
Jesse: She is 50% my mom and 50% my dad. All of the weird little factoids she says, like “If you drink iced water it will freeze the fats in your arteries and you’ll get a heart attack!” are things I stole directly from my dad. My mom is very proud to know that Vera is based on her. She says I should be paying her a percentage of my royalties.
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Jesse Q. Sutanto’s new novel Vera Wong’s Guide to Snooping (on a Dead Man) is now available.
Deanna Raybourn’s new novel Kills Well with Others is now available.
