Are There Any Subjects Too Dark for Crime Fiction?

Last year I wrote an essay for CrimeReads, detailing why I’d never read or write about cults, and my position remains unchanged. However, one author’s bête noire is another’s fascination. It got me wondering; what, if anything, might others consider too dark to write about? Are there authors out there who won’t limit themselves at all? Time to explore the subject with Sam Bailey, J.T. Ellison, Robyn Harding, Wendy Heard, Jennifer Hillier, and Roz Nay, six talented, powerful and intriguing women. Let’s discover just how terrifying they’re prepared to make their stories in order to give their readers—and themselves—the iciest of chills…

Hannah Mary McKinnon: Let’s start with an easy one—what is it about crime that interests you enough to want to write about it?

Wendy Heard: They say you’re supposed to write what you know, right? Muahahaha…

Robyn Harding: Unlike Wendy who is clearly a very sneaky criminal, I write about crime because I like to read about it, listen to podcasts about it, watch documentaries about it. I love delving into why crimes are committed, and how criminals are created.

Roz Nay: Yes, unlike Wendy who we’re all very worried about now, I write crime because my life is pretty level and steady. It allows me to delve into the shadowy underbelly, which has always interested me, as I watch from a safe viewpoint. 

Jennifer Hillier: I’m suspicious about everybody. I was at Target the other week and was betting that the lady who cashed me out had a dead body in the basement of her house. Now obviously, I don’t know that she has a house, or even a basement, but there that was shifty look in her eyes, and so I write stories to find out how the (imaginary) body got there.

J.T. Ellison: You mean I’m not the only paranoid one around? Phew. (Puts down the DSM V). In all seriousness, I’m fascinated by how terrible people can be to one another. I mean, a great deal of crime fiction is basically the cliché you always hurt the one you love, on steroids. I like to look behind closed doors, imagine what’s really going on. My neighbors just love me. True story, there’s an outside light that blinks on and off in a house on my street. I know it’s just a short in the wiring, but the first time I saw it I rushed over to make sure there wasn’t anyone in distress. That went over well. I am hopeless.

Samantha Bailey: I’m relieved that both Jennifer and J.T. are suspicious and paranoid, too. I’ve been fascinated with crime for as long as I can remember. I’m obsessed with psychology and what might tip someone over the edge. I love to eavesdrop and imagine what’s really going on inside the houses as I pass by on a walk. Not that I try to look into people’s windows because that would just be weird, right?

JT: @SB Ummmmm…. guilty.

FROM LEFT: J.T. Ellison, Jennifer Hillier, Robyn Harding, Roz Nay, Samantha M. Bailey, Wendy Heard, Hannah Mary McKinnon

HMM: Do you typically kill off men or women in your novels, or are you an equal opportunist?

RH: I will kill off anyone if it serves the story, but I’ve made a concerted effort to kill a few men. It seems like women and children are the most common victims in crime fiction, and I wanted to change that up. And I was writing a novel during the #MeToo movement, and it brought up a lot of feelings for me. I didn’t want to write about a female victim at the time.

WH: All genders are in equal danger in my stories, but I do like turning stereotypes on their heads and messing with gender in certain scenarios. For example, in my two books out so far, the only on-page sexual assault has shown up in a storyline where the victim was male. I think we see a lot of assault of women in our genre, and I was interested in flipping that.

RN: I agree. It’s fun to flip things—I’m interested in female protagonists who are outsmarting everyone around them, especially the men.

JH: I’ve mostly killed women (other than one book, where it was teenage boys), and I know I do that because I’m a woman, and it’s the thing that scares me the most. Writing about it—and exploring some kind of justice or closure at the end—helps me face the fear. No women die in the new book I just finished though, so maybe I’m evolving.

JT: I, too, am an equal opportunity murderess. No one is safe.

SB: I’m also an equal opportunist, but women tend to be my focus, I think, because like Jennifer said, as a woman it’s what I fear. It’s women’s struggles, terrors, downfalls, and triumphs that intrigue me the most.

HMM: What’s the darkest subject you’ve explored so far? What drew you to it?

WH: Gillian Flynn said, “I really do think the world can be divided into the people who like to look under the rock and the people who don’t want to look under the rock. I’ve always said, since birth, ‘Let’s look under the rock.’” I think that’s the best description of crime writers I’ve ever read.

RH: That is excellent! I hadn’t heard that before.

RN: Yes, love that. I’m a look under the rock kind of girl. Just don’t live under it.

JH: This is exactly right! I’ve researched a lot of really dark stuff, and I have a homicide textbook with actual pictures that basically depict in full color all the stuff that’s under the rock. Again, I think for me it’s about keeping sense of control over things I have no control over—if I see it, if I look, then maybe it won’t happen to me.

JT: While all of my research tends toward the dark side, I’ve had two subjects that linger on with me: necrophilia, and Anonymous. You’d think hacking wouldn’t be so disturbing, but their nihilist tendencies and braggadocio is overwhelmingly freaky. I had to slip into the Dark Web to get it all right, and that is a frightening, uncomfortable place. The necrophilia—well, that’s just squicky. Bundy is the first who comes to mind, but Cosby, too, is technically a necrophiliac. It’s not necessarily the desire to have sex with dead bodies, only unresisting ones. The research was fascinating from a clinical perspective, but quite gross, for all that.

SB: I’m definitely an under-the-rock kind, which tends to worry people when I talk about it at parties.

HMM: Anything you’d absolutely never, ever write about? Anything you consider too dark or off limits?

RH: I would never write about something that would expose or hurt someone I know. Sometimes, I hear about incidents in my own community, or through friends and I think: God, it would be so interesting to explore that through fiction. But I couldn’t take advantage of someone’s suffering for the sake of a good story.

WH: @RH Here’s a question: Would you write about a really terrible ex? Or someone who wronged you? Would you ever use fiction as revenge?

RH: @WH I think most of my characters are composites of people I have known, so if you were unkind to me, there is probably a piece of you in one of my villains. But I don’t think I’d create an identifiable character and then kill them off in a book. Maybe I have yet to be sufficiently wronged?

WH: I don’t like to write about small children, animals, or elderly people being victimized. I can read about these things or watch them on TV/Film (I absolutely loved the series Broadchurch on BBC), but it’s just…I don’t want to live in that for the year it’s going to take me to write a book.

RN: I find it hard not to write about people who’ve wronged or made a big impression on me, but I try not to make them too recognizable. It’s like I take the dial and turn it a few notches. But in my head, I know what I’m avenging or celebrating.

JH: I’m with Roz. On some level, I think all my books are revenge books. They’re every dark thing I ever wished I could say or do to someone, but with no real-world consequences.

JT: See, I’m the opposite, I’m too afraid of karma coming at me with a big stick to write about the truly horrible people I’ve had the displeasure of running across. That’s not to say a phrase or behavior doesn’t find its way into a manuscript––there’s no real way to avoid it, truth be told. We writers are sponges, we soak up everything around us then squeeze it out on the page. But I try not to put in real people unless they’ve paid for the privilege.

As far as topics that are off-limits? I will not, ever, hurt a cat. Just won’t happen. And I will put the book down if you do. (I accidentally killed a puppy on the first page of my first book, and it haunts me to this day.) Kids are fine, though I don’t enjoy that sort of thing at all. But helpless animals? Nope. See ya!

SB: @JT Karma is a bitch. Can I say that here? I don’t want to say there’s anything too dark for me because Woman on the Edge is my debut, so I’m not sure how dark I can and will go in future books. And the more I worked on it, the darker it got. But that being said, I also don’t think I could write about hurting animals, and anything to do with children is more off the page and subtle than overt.

HMM: Have you had push-back from an editor or your readers about things you’ve written, or wanted to write about?

RN: I tried very hard in Our Little Secret to have a character steal a four year-old girl from her bed in the middle of the night, but the scene I wrote was deemed too upsetting. In the end we changed the crime entirely. The new crime fitted the story better; the old crime was basically my worst fear written out on paper (my own daughter was four at the time).

JH: At some point, all my editors (I’ve had three so far) have asked me to scale back the violence. And I have, every time, which just goes to show how important it is to have a fresh set of eyes. I’ve been writing crime fiction for ten years—I wouldn’t say I’m desensitized to it, but when you research a lot of real-life dark stuff, it can be hard to know that 10% of what I just researched might be too hard for most readers to stomach. So maybe 5% is what works better in a commercial crime novel.

JT: That’s a great question. I’ve never been asked to scale back. I even had one editor add F-bombs, which to this day makes me laugh when I recommend that book. I always look to Karin Slaughter if I feel like I need to go for it or pull back. She never flinches in her work, never, so I use that as my guide. WWKD––What Would Karin Do? (I use Lee Child as my example for career/business questions in the same manner).

RH: Her Pretty Face was inspired by the aftermath of a notorious Canadian crime. A female serial killer cut a plea deal and went on to become a wife and mother. I wanted to delve into that incongruity, and explore forgiveness, and whether people can really change. The actual crime in my book is not specific to this case and I didn’t go into detail. But for some Canadian readers, it still hit too close to home. I’ve gotten some angry reviews and messages.

SB: Not yet! I’m really happy because my editors and I are on the same page, bad pun intended.

HMM: How do you balance writing the dark stuff vs. being called out for being in it purely for “shock value”?

WH: I’ve never had that commentary, and I think we avoid it by making sure that everything in the story is relevant to the character and plot arcs. If a reader knows this needs to happen for a number of reasons, they’ll be on board with the darker plot elements.

JH: My first one star review for my first book described it as “torture porn.” Which was weird because there were no actual scenes of torture, but I respect that certain things are just disturbing for some readers.

RN: @JH I hope you didn’t go into Goodreads unarmed. Reading one star reviews on there is the original dark stuff.

JT: @RN Ha! Preach.

JT: When I started out, we were all writing serial killer books and the more––shall we say unique?––the killings were, the better. Originality and brutality were encouraged and rewarded. Now, I think to the victor go the spoils if you can really make a worthwhile twist. Which is better. But I’m starting to wonder if the unreliable narrator isn’t essentially the same thing. Are we creating a new generation of victims in unstable women?

HMM: Have any of your personal experiences influenced your stories? Can you share how?

WH: My second book, The Kill Club, has a lot of me in it. It was my first time writing my hometown, and my first time broaching LGBT issues, and that was pretty tough, actually! I am still feeling a bit sensitive about the whole thing.

RN: @WH it’s hard not to feel sensitive, isn’t it? I’m currently finishing up book two and it’s loaded with personal experiences. My day job continues to be in child protection (ugh) so there’s a lot of bleak knowledge in there that I’m using. It’s like lancing a boil.

JH: Oooh, boy. My books deal with a lot of toxic relationships, and those have all been inspired by personal experience.

RH: My novel, The Party, is about teen drinking and a sweet sixteen party that goes horribly wrong. When I wrote it, my kids were teens and the alcohol issue was very present for me. A lot of the “cool” parents were letting kids drink in their home. Instead of saying, “Hey guys, I think that’s a bad idea,” I wrote a book about the worst case scenario. I’m sure they felt my judgment.

JT: My most recent title, Tear Me Apart, deals with mental illness, suicide, and self-harm, three topics near and dear to my heart that have affected my family deeply. I also use a LOT of local crime in my series books, from the Wooded Rapist to fraud in the police department. And @WH, it’s always hard when you start putting pieces of your soul on the page for others. Kudos!

HMM: Any stereotypes in crime writing that drive you crazy?

RN: I’m currently working on trying to write a psychological thriller that explores other ways to be a villain—i.e. not killing or kidnapping anyone. My theory is that in life, there are so many ways to be creepy or despicable. I’m bucking the genre stereotypes!

JH: Roz, I want to read this book!

JT: I don’t know that we have enough column inches for this answer… my biggest is the damaged heroine who has been “created” by a terror in her past which makes her now strong and competent and driven, so she becomes a law enforcement officer. Born in blood, so to speak, by the death of a family member, or a missing sibling, etc. It’s done a LOT. I was very intentional with this in my Taylor Jackson series. She became a cop because she wanted to right the world’s ills, not because something in her background made her grow balls. I feel very deeply that women are strong, full stop. I resist the “strong female lead” moniker for this very reason. How many “strong male leads” books are you hearing about?

Also, all these people keep padding around. Dogs pad. People walk. (You kids get off my lawn!)

RH: @JT I think my characters sometimes pad, but only if they are wearing socks!

WH: I get creeped out by the way some (of course, not all) male authors treat sexual assault on the page. In particular, I find it icky when a woman’s assault is used as the male protagonist’s backstory or his motivation for a revenge fantasy arc, or when a woman is sort of turned into a badass assassin by being assaulted. Like she was bitten by this radioactive rape spider and suddenly she’s doing martial arts and using machine guns.

SB: Ooh, Roz, I want to read it, too! I don’t think there are stereotypes that drive me crazy. What I want in the crime fiction I read is to see a fresh take or an original approach on a time-honored trope. Bravery, like in the The Neighbors (by Hannah Mary McKinnon). That ending is a killer because it’s shocking and unexpected. Gilly Macmillan also does this so well. And her writing is so stunning and layered.

HMM: @SB – thank you!

HMM:  You’ve all written about some pretty unlikable characters? Ever worried it’ll turn readers off? What are the differences in writing unlikable men vs. unlikable women? Are they perceived/received differently? 

WH: My favorite thing is writing unusual protagonists! I like the idea of getting a perspective you wouldn’t ordinarily see. In my limited experience writing these characters, I have theorized that people have more patience for an antihero than an anti-heroine. I’d be interested to hear if anyone else has felt the same way.

RH: @WH When I wrote my first domestic drama, The Party, I created a cast of real jerks. Readers seem to particularly hate one of the wealthy female characters. Ironically, I pitied her. I thought her bad qualities came from a place of insecurity and losing touch with what’s truly important in life. But readers loathed her—even more than her husband who had equally bad behavior.  I was cognizant of that when I wrote my next book (the murderer in Her Pretty Face is quite lovely . . . except for the murdering).

RN: I’m always trying to make readers love the wrong character. It’s a personal challenge. That way, when the plot turns on them, they feel extra outraged. I think if you’re getting a strong reaction then your readers are invested. And I think female readers still appreciate a clever female villain, even if they’re mad that she did that in the end…

JH: Unlikeable female characters are the greatest, trickiest thing to write. My favorite characters are the ones where the reader just can’t decide if they want the protagonist to live or die—but I think that’s the fun of it! Bonus points if the villain is likeable and the same internal conflict applies. It feels like the standards are higher for women characters vs. men, though. I feel like with women characters, we need to give reasons for their unlikeability. With male characters, I’m not sure the same pressure applies.

JT: There has to be something redeemable/relatable in every unlikable character, or they fall flat. I once wrote a serial killer who is horrid, vicious, (a necrophiliac, come to think of it) and has this sweet cat to whom he’s utterly devoted. I love the juxtaposition, and I know the reader will connect better if there’s a little inkling of commonality. Not likability, just something relatable.

Regarding unlikable men vs. unlikable women––sure, male characters get a hall pass if they’re jerks, women are held to a different standard. I think that’s changing a bit, though. We’re ready for a great female byronic hero. (Dibs) 

HMM:  Do you think you’ll ever write something lighter…a romance, perhaps?

RN: One day I’d like to write something funny. Perhaps with Robyn Harding, although I’m funnier than her.

WH: My life goal is to write dinosaur erotica. That’s a crowded market, but I think I can set myself apart by using the more esoteric dinosaurs. I mean, we’ve all heard of Ravaged by the Raptors and Taken by the TRex, but I could make things more educational by bringing in the Ornithomumus or the Majungasaurus.

RH: Oh poor deluded Roz. Wendy, please allow her to co-author your dinosaur porn. I really don’t want her dragging down my comedy.

RN: Has nothing.

JH: Dinosaur erotica! Yes! I can see the series title now: SIZE MATTERS.

JT: @JH @WH @RH Thanks, just spit tea on my keyboard. I mean, we have zombie erotica (which seems a little counterintuitive, with all those parts falling off…) so dinosaurs do seem like a logical step.

JT: I aspire to write something nice one day, where there are no dead bodies and creepy people. I think it’s actually much harder to do well, to not be derivative. Crime fiction is easier in the sense we’re only held back by our imaginations. And large dinosaurs, apparently.

SB: So I just spent far too much time looking up a lot of dinosaur porn and laughing out loud. I started out writing rom com and still love reading it so I’ll never say never. But I find as I get older, my ideas get more twisted than less. In ten years, I might be too dark even for me.

***

I don’t know about you, but I think these crime authors have the best sense of humor, ever! Maybe they’ll branch out into comedy, too. Until then, find out more about each of them, and their latest novels, here:

• J.T. Ellison (JT) – Tear Me Apart (out now) www.jtellison.com
• Jennifer Hillier (JH) – Jar of Hearts (out now) jenniferhillierbooks.com
• Robyn Harding (RH) – Her Pretty Face (out now) robynharding.com
• Samantha M. Bailey (SB) – Woman on the Edge (coming summer 2019 in the UK; early 2020 in North America) samanthastrohbailey.com
• Wendy Heard (WH) – Hunting Annabelle (out now) wendyheard.com
• Roz Nay (RN) – Our Little Secret (out now) roznay.com